Minnesota K-12 science standards process....

One person's view that I completely agree with.

More of my own thoughts when I have some free time.

Obama on science

Last year a movement started to push for a debate on science and technology policy. Since that time, we have gone through both republican and democratic primaries yielding John McCain and Barrck Obama as our candidates for the next election. We have also been immersed with issues of faith and god throughout the primaries and most recently for the general election at Saddlebrook in a "debate" run by Rick Warren.

I realize how important it is to many people in this country that our elected leaders have the appropriate belief in magical beings, Jesus walking on water and born of a virgin (no rape on god's part involved of course): REQUIRED; Tooth fairy takes baby tooth from under pillow and replaces it with inflation adjusted coinage (25 cents in the 1970's): UNACCEPTABLE. However, for a minority of us, we want to know how the candidates will approach real life issues with real life policies. Are they in favor of the Roe v Wade decision and how will they approach this issue? How and/or will they take any steps to avoid disasters like Katrina? What I find ironic is that it seems a segment of our society thinks continuous prayer and/or discriminating gays is one good way to prevent Katrina; however, prayer and gay discrimination isnt sufficient to reverse roe v. Wade, for that we need supreme court judges with an agenda.

Anyway, my candidate has responded to the 14 science and technology policy questions submitted to both candidates. Senator McCain has also stated that responses will be submitted. (Always going second, like at Saddleback, does give one an advantage although it begins to look weak). Read through the responses and see what you think.

Science Education in Minnesota: How Ugly is it?

Yesterday came the the press release from the Minnesota Department of Education discussing the recent New Science Assessment. The test was given to 5th graders, 8th graders, and high school students and the results for proficiency (across the state) were 39%, 38%, and 43% respectively. In other words, 6 out of 10 students did not meet the standard. Students were grouped as either DOES NOT MEET STANDARD, PARTIALLY MEETS STANDARD, MEETS STANDARD, or EXCEEDS STANDARD. To me I reclassify them as F, D, C, A respectively. So what does this mean and is it important?

Well damned if I know what it truly means or if it is important in any definitive sense but I have some thoughts that may be relevant.

First, a quick look at the Star Tribune article particularly the comments provides some insights. First, we have the comments of the nature "Since these tests have no effect on the test taker they are invalid." I see, so I expect individuals with these thoughts hate No Child Left Behind and punishments being handed down for poor school performance. I mean the math and reading tests do not impact the test taker directly either. Maybe, just maybe, students aren't lazy fucking pukes like the assholes writing these comments....unless of course these idiots reproduced and their kids are taking the tests.

Second, we have the people who have a political objection with science they don't like (kinda like our president (and republican candidate)). "Global warming and high standards - two myths we can live better without" See if you don't believe in global warming, then if a test has a question on global warming, the entire test is invalid. It doesn't matter what was in the standards, and presumably taught. No, it only matters what you personally believe at home watching FOX news and drinking beer (full disclosure Im drinking a beer right now, Surly's Furious, Mmmmm Mmmmmm good). You know if I am given a test in this country and a question reads Who was the son of god? A. Kukla; B. Fran; C. Olly; D. Jesus. I answer D, because I know that is what I was taught (obviously this would be a sunday school test), this is despite the fact I want to write in E. Are you kidding me? as the answer. Note the focus on some specific aspect of the test and then KABOOM everything is invalid.

While this was the first time this specific test was implemented the Trib article notes the following trend in science in Minnesota: 1995 8th graders ranked #2 world-wide behind Singapore (outstanding MINN!!!); 2000 #2 in the country; 2005 # 5 in the country. Nice downward trend there, but of course that just means the tests are invalid because everyone knows We're #1!, We're #1!, We're #1! There said it 3 times it must be true. Doesnt this seem disconcerting, 3 tests over a 10 year period and continual drops in the scores and now we have 60% of our students are not making what "we" consider the minimum?

Hey Lorax! Why was "we" in quotes like that in the previous sentence?
Glad you asked. In fact, by "we" I mean "not me." The minimum achievement in the current K-12 science standards were implemented under the auspices of Cheri Yecke. Cheri Yecke who came from the Dept. of Education in VA serving under George Allen (R) and Jim Gilmore (R), by way of the edukashun president for a year, before landing in our laps thanks to Tim "wishes to sit on Bush's lap in the Rose Garden" Pawlenty. Yecke left in 2005 (after being booted by the legislature) to fuck up schools in Florida and has since become the Dean of Graduate Programs of Harding University.

Based on that pedigree and a little knowledge, you may think to yourself, I bet she wasn't to keen on evolution. You'ld be right!
Under Yecke's watch our current science standards were developed and finalized. During that process, a number of educators and other citizens work diligently to integrate the needs of students in Minnesota with the basic sciences using National documents, other state documents, and a variety of professional resources all of which were developed by experts with tremendous amounts of experience elitists. These individuals spent many hours away from home work and family without recompense to develop these standards. Once drafted they are sent out for public review, HOWEVER Yecke and company decided to "spell check" the document, and by spell check I mean diminish any reference to evolution without the committee's knowledge. (Got to love to honest approach to life this type of evangelical christian has.) This led to a blow up from the committee and the document was restored. However, the damage was done. We are currently involved in redoing the Minnesota science standards and I am fortunate/cursed enough to be able to serve on that committee. However, all committee members had to agree before hand that we would include the following in the standards: "The student will be able to explain how scientific and technological innovations as well as new evidence can challenge portions of or entire accepted theories and models including but not limited to cell theory, atomic theory, theory of evolution, plate tectonic theory, germ theory of disease and big bang theory." The first part of this was inserted by creationists people with concerns who wanted to ensure evolutionary theory was in some way disparaged. Now the first part of this is true, no question, and it is taught as an integral part of the nature of science. However, it was not included as a mandate to make sure science standards were developed well, simply this was like the stickers on textbooks and statements read in classrooms, an attempt to force a specific biblical story into the classroom as fact. Now the second part of that phrase was the attempt of non-idiots to make sure it was apparent to thus of us who follow that the first part is ridiculous. The truth of the first part is that it is true for every single aspect and theory of science, evolution is not special in this way.

At the end of the day the current standards are pretty good, but there are clear places where someone's personal opinion got forced in. I actually expect this was from a committee member. However, once the floodgates of personal preference almost got rammed in by people not even working on the document, it seems like a natural consequence.

So for the last 8 years we've been teaching our students science using standards that were developed in a sub-optimal setting with what seems to be a far bit of outside malice. But our students did not do well on the science test? I don't get it.

Finally, No Child Left Behind (NCLB). Accountability for schools to make sure they in fact are educating our students. Sounds like a great idea to me (barring the fact that it was developed in large part by those who prefer indoctrination over education). However, maybe we could think about this a little, you know like more than 6 months in advance. First, we want our students to know how to read and do some math (not too much math or election debates might become more difficult). Now if students don't do well in those areas the schools could lose funding....Hmmm, what do you do if you run a school? Is this too hard to see? I have been told by K-12 teachers that administrators have said point-blank social studies and science is gravy if you get to it great but focus on math and reading. Math and reading are essential, but so are science and social studies for different reasons. Not everyone needs a degree in science, but don't call into Rush Limbaugh's show if you don't really know what the fuck an embryo or a stem cell is. Don't worry about someone's position on evolution/intelligent design if you use the C14 is a poor indicator of fossil age argument. Dont complain about the price of gas when you drop $20 on dietary supplements because Oprah thought it was a good idea. If you don't want to have any critical thinking skills, fine but don't be surprised that there were no weapons of mass destruction and that your non-vaccinated autistic kid gets the measles. By the way, speaking of critical thinking my point about what teachers have told me is strictly anecdotal, I could have made that up, like a cross in the sand. Of course, you could simply assume I did and discount my entire argument or you could go talk to a number of teachers in different schools and see what they say.

Ill leave you with this. Don Pascoe the assessment director of Osseo schools say this "Minnesotans are smart. They're going to see the disconnect between the standards set here and things like our ACT scores. There will be an initial bad reaction to the scores, but I think it'll soften quickly when people recognize how high the targets really are." Well is one sense Mr Pascoe is right, Minnesota was the 4th highest ranked state in 2007 for the ACT, but in another sense he's full of shit since only 38% of the Minnesota students taking the test scored as college ready in science (biology specifically, which all students take). Hmm, 38% ready for college, that's in line with the state test scores and kind of contradicts the idea thrown around about how high the science standards are. To contrast, Illinois which ranked 40th in state rankings, had 25% college science readiness. Big difference in college readiness, but every student in Illinois takes the ACT and only those considering going to college take the ACT in Minnesota, so we are dealing with a selected population and expect our scores to be much higher (in fact it looks like they should be much much higher, but they aren't). Anyway, Im sure Mr. Pascoe isnt biased in his opinion I mean Osseo schools scored as 32.4%, 31.9%, and 42.5% at the 5th, 8th, and high school levels, hmm, maybe Minnesotans are smart, but is this guy from here?

Why Im an Atheist, part XVI

So I should be a XXX, YYY, ZZZ, or any other major religion why again? Because it looks to me like individuals are essentially indoctrinated into whatever religious culture is en vogue. Am I wrong here?

I guess more importantly, for those of you who are in the predominant faith of your region (catholicism/protestantism or sunni/shia reflect opposite sides of the same coin in my opinion), why are you what you are as opposed to Buddhist (or Protestant if you happen to be Buddhist)?

If you changed mindset, why? Did this happen without being exposed to your current belief system prior to your change?

Suffice it to say, why do you believe what you believe? for example, I believe in science because it pays dividends, case in point: Moon landing, internet, corn, dogs, life expectancy, birth control, antibiotics, etc.

HT sandwalk

Good Books Gone Bad

I have been meaning to comment on Sharon Moalem's Survival of the Sickest for a while now, but I have been stymied by the real world. In short, I think this book is based on a truly interesting premise, but in presentation does a tremendous disservice to said premise. The idea behind this book is that many of the mutations that cause or predispose people to disease are actually beneficial mutations that were selected for in the distant past. One thing I took away from this book is that while I am a definite adaptionist, Dr. Moalem makes me look like a structuralist.

Now the idea that harmful mutations are really beneficial mutations in a different light is not new nor wrong. In fact the hallmark example for this is likely known to everyone reading this. It is sickle cell anemia. Sickle cell anemia is a blood disorder in which the classic concave red blood cell (the cell that transports oxygen from the lungs to the rest of the cells of our bodies) as shown to the left and taken from here, has a sickle shape to the right. Now this shape in and of itself, is not a bad thing. The problem lies in the fact that these oddly shaped cells cannot move through blood vessels effectively, thus depriving tissues of much need oxygen. This causes lots of problems, not the least of which can be demonstrated as a 30 year decline in life expectancy. In case you were wondering, or need a refresher, sickle cell anemia is cause by a point mutation in the DNA (a single nucleotide change) that leads to a single amino acid substitution in the protein sequence of hemoglobin (by the way, most of a red blood cell is composed of hemoglobin). This mutation, causes hemoglobin sub-units to polymerize into fibers, which distorts the red blood cell, leading to its sickle cell shape.

Holy crap Batman! This sounds bad and should be selected against.

Indeed Robin, however, let's look at where this mutation is most often found. Yes boy wonder, Sub-Saharan Africa. Notice that malaria is prevalent in that area as well. What? You're wondering if there is a link? Damn Boy Wonder is you aren't just the cats meow (and by that I mean smart, yet pathetic). Indeed there is a link! You see, human beings who carry the sickle cell mutation (in other words have a normal copy and a mutant copy) or are homozygous for sickle cell (have 2 mutant copies and 0 normal copies) are more resistant to malaria.

Holy defecation Batman, that rocks! But if sickle cell anemia is bad, what the fuck? I mean that doesn't make sense.

Indeed it does Boy Blunder, I mean Wonder (wonder I don't kick his ass out of the Justice League). However, think about this. Malaria will sicken everyone, but kills children in the less than 5 year old range. Whereas, sickle cell anemia, while debilitating tends to kill 40+ year olds. So, if you live in a malarial invested area, its better for you to have the sickle cell mutation survive childhood, be hawt and reproduce, and die at 40 rather than not having the sickle cell mutation and dying in childhood.

Now while the evidence linking malaria/sickle cell anemia is well established, the scenarios described by Dr. Moalem are weaker. There is the  pubonic plague vs. iron overloading, diabetes and ice age (recent ice age not ancient), high cholesterol (which your blogmaster is dealing with) vs. vitamin D, and the list continues. Now I will not dispute any of the potential claims made by Dr. Moalem, but I will remain highly skeptical primarily because Dr. Moalem does a fantastic job writing to the lay public and an atrocious job writing to a scientist. Phrasology (if I can make up a word) such as "in the prestigous journal..." or the fact that nothing in science is understood until some asshat working on a mouse recapitulates what's been known in yeast and plants for decades (epigenetics).  Pounding the Barbara McClintock was relegated to the back burner mythology because MDs couldn't understand the importance of her work, although she worked alongside other seminal molecular biologists such as Salvador Luria and Max Delbruck, not to mention the fact that Dr. McClintock was elected to the National Academy of Sciences in 1944. Nope. The value of Dr. McClintock's work was not appreciated until mouse geneticists realized she was right.

Suffice it to say the idea behind the book is outstanding and deserves more intellectual consideration. However, the delivery of the book, after the first 1-2 chapters, reads more like any general woo-meister cook book rather than a scientific analysis. Worth it from the Barnes and Noble bargain bin, but only if you get the 10% member discount.  

Fallout over a death threat and apology?

I previously wrote a short post in support of PZ Myers and his over-the-top post on the great cracker hijacking of 2008. Of course missing the point completely (albeit I can be understanding as PZ's hyperbole was intentionally inflammatory), a number of christians™ did what they do best and proceeded to exhort, damn, and otherwise hate on Dr. Myers. This isn't a christian trait by any stretch, get enough people together, offend them in some way, and a few will go all ape-shit in an anonymous fashion. So, the reaction was not unexpected. However, and again this could not be unexpected, Dr. Myers received some extremely threatening responses, including at least one death threat. 

Much to my satisfaction, Dr. Myers instituted a publication policy stating that he reserves the right to post any threatening emails he receives with full identifying information. (Note to self:  delete recent draft of email to Dr. Myers.) So of course, more emails come in and he posts two of them for his vast audience's perusal. Now PZ notes that he simply wanted to advertise these emails and the identifying information that could be found there and that's it. Sad Sad Sad. I will take him at his word and assume he meant what he said, however, I will also assume that he is naive (at best) or delusional (at worst) and I am leaning more towards the latter than the former.  PZ has been blogging since before there was a blogosphere, he's like those early bacterial species generating O2, which eventually increased atmospheric oxygen levels to levels that allowed us respiratory bloggers a niche in which to grow. When you post this kind of "anonymous" information in relation to someone who sent you a threatening email, your computer savvy (and not so savvy) readers will attempt to gather information on the sender. Why? because its a challenge, "what can I learn and post in a comment revealing more information" mindset. You want to know why this psychological perspective exists, look at all the reality shows on the damn tube. People want up close and personal information and many people are willing to go after it.

Now the first email came with readily obvious information, which was immediately problematic for the sender. It came from a 1800flowers.com email address, and represented an obvious employee's account. The stupid would burn if it wasn't for the fact that people seem to check their brains when the modem light comes on. Alright, so why does this matter? Well the email read (punctuation, grammar, spelling in the original post)...

Paul,
what I would like to know is how did you even get a job at a collage. when you are obviously a moron. How would you feel if nice folks starting ranting against Fags, and atheist like yourself. well sir, you don't get to blaspheme and walk away from this. You have two choices my fucked up friend, first you can quit your job for the good of the children. Or you can get your brains beat in. I give you till the first of the month, get that resignation in cunt

Call me an idiot, but WOW, strike that FUCKING WOW! Just to be a complete asshole let me try a do over for the sender...

Dear Dr. Myers,

What I would like to know is, how did you even get a job at a college when you are obviously a moron? How would you feel if nice folks started ranting against fags and atheists like yourself? Well sir, you don't get to blaspheme and walk away from this. You have two choices my fucked up friend, first, you can quit your job for the good of the children or second, you can get your brains beat in. I give you until the first of the month to get that resignation in, you cunt!

Now I am not to happy with the corrected version, but damn! Brain cells were flinging themselves out of my ears like rats from a sinking ship while I was typing that. I mean, jesus christ, "...if nice folks starting ranting against Fags..." What the hell is your definition of nice?

Now it turns out numerous individuals contacted 1800flowers and informed the company that an employee's email account was used to send a threatening email. Long story short, said employee got fired.....because the email was sent by her husband! It was sent by Mr. Kroll using Mrs. Kroll's work email account. Now in no way do I believe Mr. Kroll was acting maliciously in using said email account. He is too damn stupid to understand that aspect. Now while many posters in the comments of several blogs have anguished over Mrs. Kroll's firing, I am less forgiving.

Alright, that is the back story. Now we finally get to the purpose of this post. Chuck Kroll issues an apology? (punctuation is correct) You can read the post uninterrupted at that link, I just want to break down several aspects in this long winded apology/diatribe.

Melanie Kroll did not send an email to anyone named Paul. Melanie Kroll did not threaten anyone in an email with death, or as was the case in the email in question, a physical beating.

Does "Paul" get a last name too or is it only catholics?

this email did not come from 1-800-flowers, or anyone connected in anyway shape or form to that company

Connected like being married to said employee and sent while logged into a 1800flowers server? 

The fact is, that this email to the so called professor,

No in actual fact PZ Myers is a professor, not a "so called" professor unlike Mr. Kroll a so called christian. 

was sent by an angry male catholic, who was very upset after reading that some crazed person in a position of responsibility, charged with teaching children biology, had been encouraging people to steal and desecrate the body of CHRIST, which for Catholics is represented by the Eucharist.

Where to start...would it matter if PZ was a firefighter? or taught French? He never encouraged anyone to steal anyone's body and if you think a piece of bread is a human body, can we amplify christ's DNA from it? Also, he never asked anyone to desecrate a piece of bread, he wanted to do it himself..I mean if you can desecrate a piece of bread.

I know this to be true, since I wrote the original email to this so called teacher.

Again with the so called.....sigh

Was the tone of the letter terse, and did I say I would beat his brains in, yes I did.
I wrote this in the same way one does when saying “I’ll beat your ass”, “or kick I’ll kick your butt” or other such niceties used by members of the unpolished masses, such as myself.

Please assclown do not include yourself in the unpolished masses club. Im one and I don't use the term "cunt" lightly. By the way, I can kick a butt and beat an ass and not kill anyone, but if I bash in someone's brain they are effectively fucked.

 I live a thousand miles away from this guy.

Planes asshole, or car....1000 miles/60 miles per hour = less than a days drive.

My anger at what he (Myers) was doing,

Typing?

and the fact that there seems to be a double standard used by these so called intellectuals such as Paul Myers to attack the religion of millions of Americans, and to encourage others to do so made me see red. 

so called #3. What is the double standard? Only christians are allowed to send death threats?

Upon reflection, and reading many of the comments made, I feel that no matter how mad I was, it did not make it right for me to use the language or tone I used. In fact, I think there would have been many more constructive things I could have done, the angry email was just the simplest way.
And I’m sorry.

Poor start, but Mr Kroll really pulled it out at the finish which seemed ok....what? there's more? But he said sorry, what else is there to say?

There are many folks that read, and biog. at this site who are not religious, perhaps you feel it’s silly, outdated, or superstition, fine. This is your right,

Ok, I dont know why he's going on, this is correct but so freaking obvious my head hurts...what there's more?

 but for people in positions of responsibility and with the power to encourage captive undeveloped minds to attack their neighbors beliefs is just insane, divisive, and maybe even criminal.

Ok I see, only halfwits like yourself are allowed to be assholes. If you have a reliably firing neuron you must tread softly. This must explain why the so called Mr Kroll never sent a death threat to Bill Donohue. By the way, why is it ok for Dr. Myers to believe these rituals are based on silly outdated superstitions, but he should not talk about it on his (personal fucking) blog, whereas the religious can believe any old batshit crazy things they want and indoctrinate undeveloped minds?

I wonder if that university where mr. myers is employed excepts any money from the state?

Of course it does moron...Its the University of Minnesota: Morris. Must have taken too long to look it up or see it on the sidebar of PZ's site or read it in the blogs you are clearly getting your information™ from.

 And I wonder if the good people of this state know that they are paying good, hard earned tax dollars on such a disturbing creature as mr. myers.?

Dr. Myers, its Dr. Myers Mr. Kroll. Let's see Dr. Myers has been interviewed numerous times in the papers, most recently in relation to being expelled from a screening of the movie Expelled, in which he played a role. Since the movie was about how bad it is that creationism intelligent design is being kept out of schools, I expect anyone capable of reading or being read to is able to be aware of Dr. Myers opinions on religion.

 I know for a fact that the University is aware of mr. myers antics, and have disavowed his statements.

So? Your wife seems to have disavowed your actions. What's your point?

I am going to write to mr. Myers and offer him my apologies for using such childish language, and the threatening way in which I presented myself to him. It is my hope that he will forgive me, or hold me accountable. However, I think it is his duty to repair the damage that he and his associates have achieved through their concerted and organized campaign to punish both Melanie Kroll, and 1-800-flowers, who were completely blameless in this matter.

Umm, Mr Kroll? About that apology earlier, I am feeling a little uncomfortable with...you know what? Fuck you. There I said it. No more pansy footing around. Mr Kroll you are a despicable little troll of a man. You know you're despicable, but are fortunate enough to be able to cloak yourself in religion to try and hide that fact from yourself and those around you. 1. Your wife is not completely blameless, she let you have access to her email account. Thus, nullifying your completely blameless hypothesis. If you (Mr. Kroll) had logged her out or even taken the time to check where you were sending this ADMITTEDLY threatening email none of this would have happened. You could have sent the email from another account (try gmail, yahoo, or hotmail for starters) and your wife would have her job. Concerted and organized....paranoid much? Yes, PZ was kidding himself when he posted the information. However, many commentors went to bat for your wife and PZ insisted people stop emailing 1800flowers (of course that ship had sailed). Regardless, its on you asshat. Blaming PZ and those that contacted 1800flowers is like blaming your mother for birthing you. Actually it probably is more her fault since your parents likely indoctrinated you into the hateful self-absorbed puke you are.

However, this whole incident has caused someone who had nothing to do with the email to mr.myers,.a wonderful, sweet person who would never threaten anyone terrible troubles. Great harm has been done to this wonderful lady, without proof or a question asked, you just accuse, and assume.

Liar liar pants on fire! Show me where Dr. Myers accused and assumed that Mkroll sent the email. Was it this? "for one thing, we can't be certain that an innocent's account hasn't been hijacked; for another, we're supposed to be better than that." or this "Please STOP SENDING EMAIL TO THESE INDIVIDUALS. There are too many of you, the over-reaction is excessive, and you are not doing our reputation any favor. See this message for more."

Wow and I thought you liberal folks were supposed to be the open minded ones.

Sweet, nice use of the FOX "liberal" there. By open minded, are you referring to after you bashed in PZ's brains?

It is my hope that since the mystery is now removed, and now that the Identity of the horrible person who dared write such crude things to the mr. myers is known, that the same people who put so much effort into harming Melanie Kroll, will use as much effort to right the wrong that has been done to her.

Right the wrong, right the wrong....hmm, Dear Mrs. Kroll, I know an excellent divorce lawyer...

If there is responsibility, and any seek revenge or if there is a need for consequence, it should fall on me, and me alone.

Duh, ya think? But if you are responsible, why is it Dr. Myers' duty to get your wife's job back? I don't get it.

The email account used to send the email was used by mistake, I sent the email from what I thought was my private account, not the 1-800 email account that was used. I had simply clicked on the link to the professors email in the article.

You forgot so called. Also, your wife almost certainly violated the use policies for the 18o0flowers account. Your toolness simply let the company know that. For the record, I send flowers often to family members and friends across the country, ask me if I would use 1800flowers if some action had not been taken. I think the company is knowledgeable about these issues even if you are not. Bad press is not better than no press, unless you're a creationist.

. It’s somewhat amazing to me, that a guy responding (albeit brutishly) )to
a news article about a crazed professor who was encouraging his students and others to
desecrate the American catholic church, could turn into this orgy of innuendo, and an attack on an innocent, hard working mother of three, and a company that hires many underprivileged people, and single mothers as a matter of policy.

So what is it? A piece of bread, a chunk of human meat, or a frigging building, you are confusing me. Orgy of innuendo? Please. Innocent? She exposes her 3 children to the rantings of an apparent lunatic. Attack? I am sure some assholes sent inflammatory and vile emails in protest, much like yourself Mr. Kroll. But I also expect most were simply informative and if the assholes who sent inflammatory emails did it from their work computers or let someone do it from their work account, I expect their jobs are in jeopardy too.

I want to thank some of the level headed people that have posted here. Some who seem so super smart to me, it’s almost intimating!

Low bar phenomenon

 My sending mr. myers that wrongheaded stupid email was never the fault of Melanie Kroll, or 1800-flowers, or the pope, or Bill DONAHUE, not even the president. It was just my gut reaction to statements made by mr. myers and his disciples.

Approaching a closing apology....?

In closing I still maintain that if mr. myers. Or anyone, who is encouraging people to desecrate the Eucharist, or if he is doing so himself, I would like to beat his brains in, would I? I don’t know.
I’ve never done so before. Though, at that one moment when I was reading his statements..?
I suppose If I caught him doing it, I would try to stop him.

Apology denied!

I wonder if all of you perfectly politically correct folks here, the ones who prefer to stifle any thought, or debate that does not fit into the approved thoughts of the day.
Would find it so interesting, or funny, if mr.myers were attacking the Muslim or Jewish religions, or encouraging others do so?

Hey moron, spend a minute doing some research. Myers attacks any and all religions, christianity turns up most often because of fucks like you, who live and breath right here next door. Groups that insist we give them super extra special consideration in all things.

What many folks don’t know, is that mr. myers seems to have a warm spot for the Islamic religion.

Prove it. Read the post on the Koran, read the post on the father who beat his daughter to death and got away with it and then had the wife killed when she left him.

 We know this from his spirited defense of Islam in the past, he insists Islam differs from other religions.

Prove it.

 It seems that mr.myers can’t even be a good atheist.
His thesis is that, it’s wrong to attack Islamic houses of worship and symbols, because they are poor and minorities. 

Do not confuse a building or ancient monument with a ritz cracker.

At least that is what a reasonable person would gather from mr. myers past statements.

How the hell would you know what a reasonable person would gather? You sent an email threatening someone's life over a cracker. If you would not have acted on it, why the fuck would a reasonable person have sent it?

That Islam is the largest religion in the world is of no matter to this professor.

why is that? Would not Islam be a fair target for mr.myers disgusting
attacks as well? If you believed that the attacks on Catholics are fair, even correct, then why not
other religions that hold that there is a God. Is Islam less wrong about this then Catholicism or Judaism mr. myers?

One syllable summarizes my interpretations of Mr. Kroll. Douche.

My feeling is that mr.myers would never dare attack Muslims, or their beliefs. Even though as an atheist, you think he would. I mean just to be fair. I hate to use a military term here, but my feeling is that Catholics are just easy targets for people like mr. myers.

Get off the cross asshole, people need the wood.

As mr. myers, should know, and most intellectually honest people do know, attacking the Muslim religion or advocating attacks of it’s symbols and traditions would not have resulted in a stupid but boorish email from a “Nutjob whacko, and all-around asshole catholic ” as ole ylooshi here, so eloquently posted above.
It may very well have resulted (if the recent 30 or so year past is any indication) with the good professor hearing the words Allah Akbar shouted into his ear, while not so nice things were happening to him, perhaps things like, being shot in the lobby of a travel agency, being thrown overboard of his cruise ship, or being shot at the airport ticket counter at lax, or maybe being driven over by a student in the college parking lot, could be the bus he rides would have been torn to shreds by a homicide bomber, or even being murdered while riding his bicycle to work, or perhaps he would have been sitting at his office computer, when one the offended folks drove an airplane through his window.

Keep praying Mr. Kroll, maybe your god will answer your prayers. If not it simply means your god was busy smiting some protestants, gays, Iowans, meh pick some place in the news. Or maybe your god doesn't like it when you call someone a cunt, I don't know.

By the way, how does Islam have anything to do with this? You sent a threatening email to PZ Myers, breaking federal and likely several laws protecting us from terrorists and terroristic activity. Are you saying that if Dr. Myers had more posts railing against bombastic asshats who follow Islam, you wouldn't have sent that email? I thought it was a gut reaction after reading a report on a ffaaaaarrrrrr right wing site that prompted you to write it? So now you wrote it because your readings of Pharyngula led you to believe there is an imbalance in the religion bashing and you want that rectified? Please explain.....What? Oh right, douche, I forgot.

Now I ask you, if that’s a fact. am I lying.

Its not a fact and yes you a re a liar. If it were a fact, sadly you would still be a liar. But hey, at least you're consistent.

C. Kroll,
Brookhaven, NY

p.s. it is my prayer that none of these terrible acts that I mentioned above happen to the good professor, or any other American for that matter. Jew, Christen, Muslim, or even atheist.

I am sure you pray it, but I expect the thought still gives you a little stiffy.

In support of that bastard Myers

There is a current little war being waged in one little niche of the blogosphere. In one corner we have PZ Myers, who has one of the more popular science/atheist websites on the net at the moment. In the other corner we have Bill Donohue, the president of the self-proclaimed spokes organization for the Catholic Church in America. At issue the eucharist. In a post, Dr. Myers responded to a news item, describing a student who took a wafer/cracker/cookie from a church, instead of worshiping, loving, holy shit EATING it!!! This kid is getting a lot of shit and death threats, because he took a wafer from the church instead of eating it. That bears repeating...

A living breathing human being is hated, reviled, and threatened because he walked out of a building with a small edible piece of cooked flour and water instead of eating it.

Now I am not Catholic, nor was I raised Catholic. However, the Lutheran and Baptist churches I went to had a similar ceremony, albeit I expect the focus was on the ceremony not the piece of bread as it appears to be for Catholics. Now PZ wrote some inflammatory things (at least inflammatory if you've been brainwashed schooled in the catholic tradition) and asked that his audience help him do some unnamed acts to said cookie wafer. Bill Donohue, speaking for all Catholics took offense at this, again on behalf of all Catholics. This led immediately to a protest to the University of Minnesota to get Dr. Myers fired. For some updates, check here, here and especially here (I love the Xian turn the other cheek love thy neighbor responses in the letters to PZ).

Now my initial response is that PZ crossed a line and should full well have expected the response he received. I agree with him almost to the letter, but my word choice would have been different. At issue here is whether the student (have we forgotten that PZ's initial post was in response to members of a Catholic church getting up in arms over a student taking a piece of the eucharist from a church, and by up in arms I do mean death threats! fucking death threats!!!). If you want to go through the communion ceremony and feel closer to your god, fine. Good for you. But I the problem lies in those members of that faith who believe that the wafer is actually in fact and in truth the body of Jesus. Ok I know the bible verse Luke 22:19 And when He had taken some bread and given thanks, He broke it, and gave it to them, saying, "This is My body which is given for you; do this in remembrance of Me." (New American Standard edition) So how does this work, in the story of the last supper, I am assuming that the bread, which presumably had been on the table the whole time, didn't disappear only to be replaced with actually parts of Jesus' body in the form of bread. If that is the argument, then did Jesus have a bunch of wounds afterwards from the chunks of flesh that flipped into the breadbasket? or is it a metaphor (assuming it actually happened)? If it was a metaphor, why is the cookie now an actual part of Jesus? I just don't get it....not enough prepubescent guilt/hope brainwashing I guess.

I started out agreeing with PZ, although feeling compassionate for the religious side. Now I agree with PZ and no longer feel compassionate. I mean WHAT THE FUCK?!?!

I believe in the Purple Unicorn of Belize and in the holy ceremonies celebrating and remembering the splendid world which her holy horsey gave us by spilling her blood into the beer steins of those first Octoberfesters. I do dedicate this fine India Pale Ale in her name as the true blood of our Purple Unicorn. If anyone should try to Snarf my beer or take another but not chug it within the ordained 5 minutes, I shall be morally offended and may have to bust a cap in their ass.

Tell me the difference in these stories.....Ill start. 1. Story #1 has been around a bit longer than the one I pulled out of my ass. Your turn.

Oh and thinking of wafers, I couldnt help but leave you with this...